“The US market has been quite incapable of seeing what lies beyond the horizon.” ~ Kim Lund
“I can play a poker tournament, and I can pay two dollars and still sit there, and I've played poker for 20 years, and two hours in, I don't want to make a mistake, I don't want to be eliminated. The money doesn't matter, but it matters, right? The hard value doesn't matter; the soft value matters.” ~ Kim Lund
Quick note: I’ve been using a text-to-speech program for the brief intro and ad read (because I’m not very good at those). Please let me know if you like it, don’t care, or dislike it.
Sponsor’s Message: Promoting a sustainable, entertainment-first global gaming industry.
Play’n GO is celebrating its 20th anniversary in 2025. Drawing on that experience from the dawn of the iGaming industry through to today, Play’n GO designs and creates world-class slot games in the online casino space.
Play’n GO wants to see a sustainable industry that puts players first. To realize that vision, Play’n GO:
Creates games designed to be entertaining and fun first
Actively lobbies for increased regulation to keep players safe
Refuses to make games that feature mechanics that we believe to be predatory, such as those that allow players to pay hundreds of times their normal stake to buy into the bonus round directly (‘Bonus Buy’ games)
Now live in over 35 regulated territories around the world, including all US and Canadian iGaming jurisdictions, Play’n GO is the leading provider of entertainment to the online casino industry.
One of the most popular guests from the Straight to the Point Talking Shop Podcast returns for his third appearance: Aftermath Interactive’s founder and chief product officer, Kim Lund.
Kim and I reflect on the "Wild West" era of unregulated gambling and how countries like France and Italy introduced ring-fencing and taxes. He critiques the US for overlooking predictable cycles during and after legalization.
The conversation also dives into evolving casino games for enjoyment over risk, emphasizing creativity stifled by regulation. Kim highlights social casinos as pure entertainment and advocates for bridging gambling with video game mechanics, like tactical depth in poker, and introduced me to a new term: flow states in slots.
We then talk about Aftermath's skill-based games, including a poker variant with XP scoring for decisions like calling bluffs. He explores dual monetization models, complexity in games, and avoiding "magic thinking" in free-to-play designs.
Other topics include the need for honest discussions on legalization's impacts, player motivations beyond quick wins, and the future of gambling.
Kim’s previous podcast appearances:
