Episode 83: Is Sustainable Gambling In the Cards with Kim Lund

“Instead of avoidance of harm, it is the presence of utility; a presence of good reasons to play.” ~ Kim Lund

“There are plenty of good, solid, healthy reasons to gamble.” ~ Kim Lund

---

Sponsor’s Message: Promoting a sustainable, entertainment-first global gaming industry.

Play’n GO is celebrating its 20^th anniversary in 2025. Drawing on that experience from the dawn of the iGaming industry through to today, Play’n GO designs and creates world-class slot games in the online casino space.

Play’n GO wants to see a sustainable industry that puts players first. To realize that vision, Play’n GO:

• Creates games designed to be entertaining and fun first

• Actively lobbies for increased regulation to keep players safe

• Refuses to make games that feature mechanics that we believe to be predatory, such as those that allow players to pay hundreds of times their normal stake to buy into the bonus round directly (‘Bonus Buy’ games)

Now live in over 35 regulated territories around the world, including all US and Canadian iGaming jurisdictions, Play’n GO is the leading provider of entertainment to the online casino industry.

For more info, visit www.playngo.com

---

In this episode of the Straight to the Point Talking Shop Podcast, I was joined by Kim Lund, Founder and Chief Product Officer at Aftermath Interactive.

As a four-time podcast guest, Kim needs little introduction. The 20-year industry veteran who is now focused on sustainable play, reflected on lessons (learned and unlearned) from the Poker Boom and how they apply to the post-PASPA sports betting world and the hype surrounding prediction markets.

We talk about the industry’s growth-at-all-costs mindset and the illusion of health that certain industry metrics create, while masking churn and underlying structural issues.

The conversation also highlights:

Liquidity challenges in peer-to-peer games: professional “sharks” and market makers that extract value and undermine long-term ecosystem stability and the current incentives that reward acquisition over retention, echoing mistakes made during the poker era.

We also talked about Kim’s latest project: a radical reimagining of gambling regulation. Instead of asking: “When does gaming become harmful?” Kim asks: “When does it stop being useful?”

Kim’s solution is a dual-track regulatory system:

• Traditional track: Traditional gambling companies would continue to deal with strict oversight, heavy taxes, and licensing costs because they operate closer to the boundaries of harm.

• Intent-based track: Operators design experiences around genuine, positive reasons to play: flow states in slots, fandom-driven sports betting, social entertainment akin to movies or books. These operators receive significantly lighter regulatory and financial burdens.

Kim argues this approach would lower entry barriers for sustainable “mom-and-pop” businesses, improve public perception, reduce black-market appeal, and create healthier economics by extending player lifetimes.

This is a fundamental challenge to the status quo and an interesting attempt to move beyond one-size-fits-all rules and attitudes toward gambling products.

Kim invited collaboration with regulators, reg-tech firms, and like-minded operators to test and refine the model.

Straight to the Point’s previous chats with Kim Lund: